Transferring Law Schools. I don't know what accounts for the change--maybe having too many transfers used to be a considered a negative data point in some ranking, but no longer is. Why Transfer? Law review. For things like your resume, I would just update accordingly. If you have to meet with your professor after finals, this will be harder, but still doable. Second, there’s no doubt about it, you need to crush your 1L exams if you want to transfer to a T14 law school. UPenn – due July 15, complete by August 1 9. If you do it during the semester, just go to office hours (alone) and ask them for the LOR. I personally did not talk about transferring with my professors, mostly because of strong anti-transferring policies at the time. The majority will usually say yes. So many of you are gearing up for your very first semester of law school. I have never heard of doing 2 OCI’s as illegal or against school policy. In law school terms that's ridiculous. Recommended Reading XIII. NYU ~45-50 (according to TLS member rayiner, it was cut down to 31 this past year) 6. However, they have not heard back from Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Chicago, or NYU. The rest of the typical research assistants, judicial externships, public interest work, etc. The vox populi is unanimous in this department. - being accepted so early gives more preparation time for an easier transition to the new school - gives more peace of mind, especially for spring finals - you can participate in the new school’s regular law review write on competition in May instead of the special one in September for transfers (or… you might even be able to try law review twice if you fail the first time in May) - easier to get LORs during the year than during the summer since professors are still around and have office hours - the decision is not binding (except for Chicago), you can still apply to other schools even if you get in (but you would have to put down a seat deposit then withdraw the application later) - you would technically already have acceptances before the regular cycle as a backup - you might be able to negotiate for a scholarship at your current law school much earlier when they have more money still - it also might be slightly easier to get in since you are applying early and the transfer class has not been filled yet, - you have to be fairly certain you want to go to the school, since they usually require you to put down a seat deposit of $500 within a month of accepting you (long before the deadlines for normal transfers) - really only limited to the schools listed above (and just Chicago and Georgetown in the T14) - doing this all during spring semester means you jeopardize spring semester grades, which are still important for fall OCI - you also have less time to write your PS and get LORs during the school year so the quality of your application may suffer, plus you will likely be looking for a 1L summer job which also takes up time - you also have fewer professors to ask for LORs (as you would depend mostly on fall 1L professors), and it would might be weird to ask your spring semester professors for LORs to transfer before you get a grade in their class (which will likely be good considering your 1st semester performance) - your second semester grades may be even better - this is obviously not indicative of anything, but very few people do early action transferring (probably because they do not know about it). Depending on exactly where you are in the T1, top 10-15% may be okay if you are only 10-15 rankings lower. If it is a geographical preference, the answer is easy. In fact, most schools know about it and realize that it is a consequence that occurs when they move their OCI up early and before people get their transfer acceptances. The weighted average GPA to transfer into a T14 is a 3.72. Should I go to a law school with the intent on transferring to another one? (easier/harder) Just looking to get any kind of insight from those with transferring experience. Some schools prevent transfers from getting future recommendations for jobs or clerkships. How else can I use transferring to obtain an advantage? However, you would have just saved a ton of money. Cornell ~5-10 according to their website (Law School Numbers says 18), though they only receive about 75 applications every year 14. Please prepare for the meeting. Seriously though, you should have decided this before you apply. You can use it to motivate you and even prepare ahead of time (by making good relationships with professors, not taking on extra long commitments/leases, by doing financial aid early, etc). Yes, this does exist and is a fairly recent phenomenon from what I hear. The application process has the same requirements as normal transfer admissions but with earlier dates: 6. When I say small boost (below), I think of it is equivalent of a 1% increase in your rankings. Also, people in the T2 who transfer to Harvard are pretty much always ranked #1. Basically the advantages of doing two OCIs are SO great that people frown upon it equally greatly. Thus, in a sense, I am really compiling all of the information I have found over the past year. Ultimately, whether you stay or go is a personal decision. Does he answer or respond to email? I could not find a record of anyone in the lower T2/T3/T4 transferring into HYS. However, these questions pop up all the time (you know what I am talking about, the "should I go to this T14 vs. stay at my old school" threads), so I will try to address what I have seen and what I think you should do. Most people write about the same things (their epic studying as a 1L and how they want to have better employment prospects), so it ends up generally sounding the same. I would be happy to add any information onto this article as well (and give you credit). With COVID-19, has the transfer market been affected in any way? Now, while students have become more interested in transferring, law schools appear to be equally interested. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Basically the rule is, do not go to law school wanting to transfer. Transferring law schools is an opportunity for students who may not have otherwise knocked their LSAT or undergraduate curriculum out of the park, to still graduate from their dream law school. For additional consideration. This article is based off of a series of blog posts by TLS Forum user “Arrow”, who started off at Loyola Los Angeles but transferred to Berkeley Law after a successful 1L year. The kicker is that GULC has an early action program. VI. Emory ~30 20. Basically, if you are unsure, feel free to do a poll on TLS. Softs probably do not matter because your first year grades are very strong predictors for OCI success at big firms and even for bar passage rates. I have met two people personally who have done it and heard of 3 people online who have done it. The Legendary Yahoo Transfer Apps (you need an account to log in) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transferapps/, -this is probably the best site out there for transfers and has a huge membership count -the message board is hard to view, but has a lot of helpful information (the search function is a bit hard to use though) -the database is probably the best thing ever when it comes to transferring and it is what I keep talking about, please add to it when you are done, Droit Femme transferring blog http://droitfemme.blogspot.com/2006/05/ ... hools.html, Sua Sponte transferring blog http://suasponte.blogspot.com/, TaxProf Blog has some nice transferring data http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... -tran.html, Law School Discussions has a transferring section on their forum http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/stud ... 006.0.html, The amazing PkSebben blog + his Q&A thread (he transfered from Florida to Mich) viewtopic.php?f=11&t=66248 viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62455, Above the Law has an interesting perspective on transfers, feel free to check out the comments for those articles http://abovethelaw.com/transfer_students/, Also, because 1L year depends so much on grades, I wrote a separate article on doing well in law school (with links to other similar articles on doing well in law school) viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77628, Thread here on TLS about transferring Part Time to Full Time at a Different School viewtopic.php?f=3&t=103013. If you have bad softs, you might get rejected at a few places, but you should still get in somewhere if you spread your transfer applications around to enough schools and are a generally competitive applicant grades-wise. However, this is not particularly a hard thing to do. In addition, the reputation of your newer school (assuming you made a big enough jump) will be likely better for clerkships and academia than staying at your old school and making law review. 1L Summer: If you have a big firm 1L summer associate position (somehow) or one of those big firm diversity scholarship jobs, I would guess that you get a small boost. However, he or she may be used to this process, since students likely ask them for LORs to transfer every year. Professors are duty-bound by the school to try and keep good students. Taking in transfers allows law schools to 1) cherry pick top students from other schools and eliminate competition, 2) take in smart people without worrying about LSAT/uGPA, and 3) take in students who pay full tuition, and 4) take in students with a good 1L year which is a better predictor of success. Can you contact him or her if problems arise? There are no guarantees. Thus, I feel like more people may want to transfer as it may become standard procedure for those who do well. Basically, if you have law school figured out already and do not end up slacking off or something, it is expected that you would do fairly well regardless of where you are. Your GPA for spring 1L semester is generally irrelevant (though C’s or lower might raise an eyebrow). Whatever the policy, you just deal with it. Some require you to have a big long talk with the dean. Is it Worth It to Transfer? If you have applied to the law school before, you would obviously have to use new materials. NYU – due July 15, Undergraduate Dean’s Certification, no LORs required, NYU also appears to require you to use paper forms for the College/Law School Transcript, LORs, and Undergraduate/Law School Dean’s Certifications 6. *This list is not exhaustive. - top 10-15% at T1, top 5-10% for CCN - top 5-10% at a T2, top 5% for CCN - top 1-2% at a T3/T4 - Other notes: Depending on how far up you want to transfer, you may even succeed if you are ranked top 20-30%. There are many reasons students want to transfer law schools, from location to law school ranking to scholarships. Most of my predictions below are based off what I have seen off the Yahoo transfer apps (which is often incomplete because students do not update or completely fill out the tables). From reading other people’s stories though, most professors are generally supportive of the transferring process and will understand that law school is a business and that you want to better yourself. Yale – due July 1, the legendary Yale 250 word personal statement, 2. Understand that schools are simply trying to do their best, and this includes trying to get their students to stay. Berkeley saves about 5 spots and Loyola saves about 6 spots. Florida State ~60 55. Most schools have general instructions that ask you to write about your background and why you want to transfer, so go for it. Does he sometimes forget things or is he slow in getting things done? - Because sometimes, you might not be able to do OCI at your new school. If you want to think transfer friendly, GULC tops the list, which has about 100 students transferring in every year (it must accept a lot more too). To be honest, I have no data and also have just never heard of anyone applying to transfer early action to Miama, Case Western, or Hofstra. I also just do not know whether the economy has any effect on transferring. There are ALWAYS going to be exceptions. Like many people, I was super jealous when I heard about this opportunity since my two schools do OCI in pretty much the same week. I chose my professors very carefully and assumed they would say yes. Otherwise, why spend all that effort and money if you ultimately decide not to go (unless you did it purely for scholarship negotiation purposes)? Both schools say that if you want to participate in law review, you have to do it in May. Just do not be surprised and kindly thank them for everything in the end. Going to a Local School: I am very tempted to say that going to a local school gives you a small boost (Loyola ->UCLA; Hastings -> Berkeley; Temple/Villanova -> Penn; American -> GULC; Brooklyn -> NYU/Columbia, etc). Regarding optional essays, you can do them if you want, but again I doubt they will have much influence. © Top Law Schools LLC 2003-2020 all rights reserved, Transferring Law Schools after the First Year, Transferring From The Law School Where You Had Been Admitted, 15 Law Schools That Get The Most Transfer Students, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transferapps/, http://droitfemme.blogspot.com/2006/05/ ... hools.html, http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... -tran.html, http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/stud ... 006.0.html, http://abovethelaw.com/transfer_students/, Interview with Andrea Kilpatrick, Director of Law Admissions at Admit Advantage, An Introduction to Law School Admissions Strategy, How Law Schools Determine Who to Admit: Inside the Admissions Process of Law Schools, An Undergraduate Timeline for Applying to Law School, Importance of Letters of Recommendation in Law School, Law School Letters of Recommendation Advice, URM (Under-Represented Minority) Application FAQ, Pre-Law School Programs Geared Toward URM (Under-Represented Minority) Applicants, Law School Applications - Ken's Successes and Regrets, A Guide To Law School Prediction Calculators. Well, first of all, only a few people from each law school may decide to transfer. If you can, try to do these things as early as possible, perhaps before spring finals kick in. WUSTL ~50 20. Transferring is a difficult and intimidating process. These schools are likely to adhere to the above-mentioned ranking requirement. Thus, I have noticed that schools have slowly started to take in more and more transfers. Santa Clara ~25-30. The prevailing result is usually to transfer to the more prestigious school (especially if it is T14) barring strong geographical preferences and tons of money. I cannot really help you there, but just use the same methods you did when you wrote your original PS. What this means is you always go to class, you do not sleep in class, and you try to ask occasional questions and engage in minor participation. Just as a reminder, I am seriously pulling this out of the back of my head based on what I have seen. In addition, I am doing this because I just really wish I had more help when I was transferring. Curious about which law schools took the most … All of the top law schools say that this can be done; however, it will be hard and I would just not count on getting into the flagship law review since there are usually very few spots saved for transfers. Since you are a transfer, you are in a unique position where it is possible for you to participate both in your old school’s OCI and your new school’s OCI. V. Do Softs Matter? I'm at a top 40s law school, and am in the top 5 of my class. Many schools try to keep it on the down-low and make it seem like the most outrageous thing that they have ever heard of. My guess is that because they cannot see your second semester grades when making their decision, they have to bank on the fact that people who do well first semester will also do well second semester (because they “get it” and already figured out legal reasoning/analysis). How does this work? Transfers students are often gunners to begin with and will likely work hard. Second, law schools themselves face a conflict of interest. The following data is all from 2018 ABA 509 reports. If the scholarship does not say anything about staying at the school or does not say anything about having to pay it back if you transfer, then you have saved a year’s worth of tuition. The upcoming break will give you the time you need to get your materials ready and weigh your options. Communication and ability to get things done – This may not be common but there are incredibly intelligent yet absent-minded professors out there. By the way, law review should not be a reason to stay but people factor it into their decision every time. The word “transfer” will hold a special place in your mind. Some of us did not realize we needed high GPA's early in college and did not have enough time to study for the LSAT because we decided to go to law school too late. Transferring Law Schools . Most schools require your 1L school to send it directly to the prospective transfer school. During office hours, you will ask productive questions AND bond with the professor by asking some non-law questions (about their background or their career paths). I heard of people not going to class or office hours but just showing up randomly and having successful transfer cycles despite lacking any strong bonds with the professor. Make sure you pick a professor who is reliable. 5. Finally, much of the transfer application mirrors that of the normal application (you pretty much submit the same things), so I will try to address the relevant aspects unique to transferring. Please welcome back Ashley Kirkwood, with more on the logistics of the law school transfer process. I asked some of my friends who were research assistants for the professors in order to figure out when the professors would be available. As a result, my 2nd semester grades were just as good as my first semester grades. Many transfers end up in the top 1/3 of the class at their new schools (though there is a lack of substantial data supporting this claim). There are the technical elements, sure: certain methods and steps must be … Duke – due July 1 10. Regarding the “why you want to transfer” section, write about certain professors/clinics/journals at the school. Ever. An aspiring transfer essentially consents to putting their entire 1L year on trialbefore the best law schools. Many schools also have a transferring organization to help ease the transition. Which schools (obviously) 2. Though I had straight A’s, I did not apply early action. I do think it is important still to actually do something during your 1L summer, rather than nothing. I have noticed that transfer students generally apply to fewer schools than when they first applied to law school. I have never heard of anyone being able to negotiate a scholarship at their new school, even if they really wanted to go to Michigan but were accepted at Harvard or something. This is especially true in this economy, where schools are lacking funds and may be a bit cheaper when it comes to scholarships. Therefore, if the new school also allows them to do OCI, they are not able to interview again (aka twice). I would not spend too much time trying to come up with something super unique. Lastly, please give your professor a TON of time to do this. Also, any “data” you see here will reflect whatever I can find as of 2009. Since this site’s name is “Top Law Schools,” I am guessing many people here will consider this backdoor route into, well, the top law schools. The Legal Whiteboard said, “This allows us to look at where students are coming from and are going to, and to look at the first-year GPA profile of students transferring in to different law schools. Talk about class sizes or geographical preferences. After you have completed one year of law school, you are eligible to transfer to another law school. 1. Oh and I want to give a special thanks to Loyola Law School, the professors, the administration, and everyone there who has been very supportive and helpful in my transferring decision. First of all, if you are transferring, then you are not even going to be on the law review or moot court team at your old school. What are my chances? A few final notes: Do not worry about too much about soft factors. They may even prevent you from bidding on fall OCI. This is a personal decision, but let us first weigh the pros and cons below. Some professors will want 3-4 weeks, so try to do this early (before grades come out) if you have to. Designed by graduates of top law schools, LearnLeo is a free, cloud-based platform dedicated to showing students how to excel in law school. Last year all of these schools accepted a transfer class of at least 40 people, with Georgetown accepting a whooping 110 transfers. Northwestern ~20 according to their website (Law School Numbers says 40) 10. I personally will acknowledge that this money saving benefit of transferring exists, but is definitely not something I recommend. Transferring law schools would mean leaving behind friendships and future colleagues, but perhaps the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. -This is obviously unfair since most people can only do OCI once -Arguments have made that there is often some lying involved and borders on being unethical or immoral -This is actually hard to do and many times you may not have the opportunity to do so -You may have to tell your employers suddenly (if you get a callback) that they have to pay travel fees for callbacks -This topic almost always reinforces transfer stigma -This is not recommended as something you should do by the general population. Most schools realize you may not have received grades by June 15th, so just email them to tell them that and send it in once you get it. A few years ago they took 30-40, and my transfer class had around 50 people. Oh boy, this is a tough one. I have only heard of one person doing this, but it is possible to intentionally go to a lower ranked school (through regular law school admissions) with a scholarship and then transfer. - according to TLS member XxSpyKEx, there was 1 guy who went to HYS from a T4 because he co-authored an article or something - according to utilitarianjac, someone with a 4.0 from Pepperdine transferred to Yale - xeoh85, who wrote the legendary TLS article on doing well in law school, was #1 at UCLA and was accepted as a transfer at all of HYS. How nice your professor is – You want someone to write a good LOR with nice things to say. For example, transfers into UCLA can try out for law review, but there are 30+ transfers and like only around 3 spots saved for their law review. When reviewing your transfer application, law schools will no longer look as much on your undergraduate GPA, class rank, or even your LSAT … Feel free to tell them the truth, though my guess is that most interviewers will understand if you tell them that it is a career decision. A decision is usually given in April or May. Also, pay attention to the due dates! - top 10% at T1 - top 5% at T2 - top 1% at T3/T4 - Other notes: Remember that GULC is very transfer-friendly and takes quite of bit of people early on if they have the numbers. What You Need to Know About Transferring Law Schools February 5, 2019 Admissions Some law students consider transferring to a new law school because a change in their personal situation compels them to relocate; others want to transfer in the hope of earning a JD from a higher-tier school, and still others think they might just find a better fit somewhere else. To lateral/transfer down/part to full time at the same school/part to full time at different schools/T3 to T4 (there is really no data on this stuff): - Generally you want to be in the top half to transfer from part to full time, but this totally depends on the school -To transfer down, I would also say you should be in the top half and maybe top 1/3 to be safe - To lateral (i.e. In addition, I lived in kind of an upperclassmen undergrad off campus housing and have pretty much integrated smoothly into this new place. I bet a 4.0/180 will raise an eyebrow, but then again you could have probably gone to HYS to begin with. Third, successful transfer students will not be around on campus to offer advice because they are now at a new school. Personal Statementtions IX. This often arises with Berkeley, Stanford, and GULC, who have June 15 deadlines. Though the number of law school students has not gone up a lot, the number of people interested in transferring seems to be increasing. 3. Basically, once you “get it” and understand how to succeed on law school exams, it stays with you. - Because you get more interviews (duh) and probably a wider range of interviews, in addition, you might be able to choose the location of your interview (at the new school or the old school) - You can overcome bid/interview limits (some schools limit the number of bids or interviews you can have) - Because this is an unusual economy and it is better to be a bit aggressive. If you had spectacular, knock-em dead grades first semester, you will likely get similar grades second semester. Where to apply? Now, even though you should not do this, I feel like a lot of people do. How to Approach Your Professor Meeting with your professor in person is the way to go. Thus, if you are accepted at GULC in April/May and know you want to go for sure, then you can and should do their regular law review write on competition. She will understand and may even give you some tips. Everyone struggles with what to write about. 4. If you struggle with the PS, I feel your pain. Transferring is very a numbers game (like your GPA/LSAT for regular admissions), but even more so than in regular admissions. Even if you are at Berkeley and trying to transfer out, they can make a general guess depending on how many HH/H/P’s you have. They simply just give you a late acceptance. This is pretty much like when you first applied to law school. That’s nearly 5% of the 37,100 students who were 1Ls the previous year. Pay attention to any special application requirements. This article is a work in progress. Pay attention to whether your professor truly loves students (aka you as a person). This mammoth guide – which is the result of extensive research and a dose of necessary speculation – outlines the lessons Arrow learned during his transfer process. The key to a successful transfer application is, above all else, preparation. Most transfers do just as well if not better. These come automatically as a result of your high GPA, and since everyone gets a ton of these plus no additional work was required to get these things, I doubt they matter at all. Interested in transferring law schools?! November 7, 2014 by Ashley Kirkwood 3 Comments. Moreover, at least 7 of the T14 admitted transfers from T3/4 law schools. In fact, most people think that being aggressive in the job hunt is okay. I will try to be as comprehensive as I can. They want to keep their best students and not surprisingly, keep the subject of transferring on the down-low. There is nothing you can do about it, so you kind of have to suck it up and realize that this happens everywhere. 2. UC Hastings ~15-20 45. This also makes it a lot easier when the time comes for you to actually ask them for an LOR. Statistically, it is hard to bank on being in the top 10% especially with all the uncertainty of law school. Some do not even address why they want to transfer and still do fine (not every school inquires for your reasons for transferring, especially since it is usually kind of obvious). It was also hard to catch the professors during the summer so I only wanted to meet with them once (rather than meeting with them a second time afterwards to hand them the forms). I think this is a great idea and I would have done it if I was not scared out of my mind by my school. are just far too common and do not really add much to your application. Other transfer-friendly schools in the T14 include NYU, Columbia, Berkeley, and Michigan. transfer to a similarly-ranked school), top 1/3 is generally okay, and maybe top 25% if you are trying to lateral within the T14. Generally, the 1L year is cliquish and it can be difficult to break into pre-existing social circles. Only a few schools allow early action so far, and you are totally limited to these schools. Before I even read your file, I recommend transferring because most of the time, that is the right answer. Sometimes, you will have the right numbers but still get rejected. In fact, my guess is that your 1st year grades and the rank of your current law school account for 90-95% of your decision at most schools.